Adam Philpott, President EMEA of cybersecurity firm McAfee, discusses how the firm creates balance between its technology and talent strategies, to keep moving into the future.
Uncertainty about the future is something many businesses have felt in recent months. While this can make many uneasy, Adam Philpott, President EMEA of cybersecurity firm McAfee, believes that a path can often unfold for us if we’re able to step back, look at the information available to us and act upon it.
His career journey is an example of how different experiences and interests can make sense later on, even when we’re unsure of what they are leading to at the time. Here are seven things we learnt during our conversation with him.
1. He allowed his career path to evolve organically, as he learnt more about himself
“Like a typical young man, I had no idea what I wanted to do,” he laughs. “I wasn’t even going to go to university. I was on holiday with my pals in Ibiza and just decided to do it and went to study marketing. That was the first time I really started to take an interest in studies and academics.”
He says it was at this time he started creating different business plans, even though he still wasn’t sure what direction he hoped to go in after he graduated.
One such plan led to him launching his own streetwear company with a friend. Although the business folded, it also showed Philpott that selling was something he enjoyed and was good at, leading him to spend the next few years in distribution until he felt ready for a new challenge in 2000. “I felt that I could offer more in a consulting-led value proposition role,” he explains. “I quit my job and moved to Australia without anything lined up and then ended up working for Cisco.”
While he had a clearer idea of what he wanted to do, he still had to prove himself within the multinational technology company. “I started there at the very bottom of the ladder,” he says. “In fact, I started below the bottom of the ladder, working as a bag packer on a two-month contract.”
He soon secured a permanent sales role and the company sponsored his residency in Australia before he gained citizenship. “I then moved to Singapore and then relocated back to my native UK – all with Cisco,” he says.
With the experience of leading sales in various countries under his belt, alongside 15 years of service in one company, Philpott was again ready for a new challenge and it was at this point that he found himself joining McAfee.
“I didn’t want to just be seen as the guy who can do things in one company. I wanted to demonstrate that my skills are effective regardless of company and I knew the CEO of McAfee pretty well, so I came to help him drive the transformation here.”
2. His own career change aligned with a strategy change at McAfee
Philpott’s change in direction coincided with McAfee’s own, as the company moved from a software-focused strategy, to a cloud-first offering. With his sales background, Philpott understands better than most the risks of failing to meet customer needs, and it was exactly this that drove the change at McAfee.
“Our customers were using more and more cloud services, whether applications, storage or anything else to more dynamically run their business,” he explains. “If we want to be relevant to our customers, to help them face the risks they’re exposed to and assist them in accelerating their strategy securely, we have to be more cloud-centric. The money was going in that direction and our customers needed us to go in that direction to support them.”
3. He likes to identify replicable models to solve talent challenges
Of course, this change in direction required a change in the company’s talent strategy too, and Philpott says that McAfee focused on three areas: “I like replicable models – little things I can use to remember a structure when dealing with external challenges – and the one I use in this area is the three Cs: capacity, capability and commitment.
“When you look at your talent, have you got enough capacity? Are there enough people with the knowledge necessary to go and do this thing? One particularly important area for us is to continually enhance our consulting-led skillset, both at an operational and executive engagement level, and across technical and go-to-market resources.
“In terms of capability, you might have enough people, but are they used to building or selling legacy technology rather than cloud products? If so, how do you build that capability?”
The commitment, he says, has to come from colleagues, but also from the organisation. This means rewarding people for adapting to new ways of working. “It’s great if you’ve got enough people and they’re skilled, but if you’re not rewarding them for supporting change, they aren’t going to do it,” he says. “From a sales side for example, if they are going to make their quota selling old products, they aren’t going to sell new ones. It’s harder, so they’ll find the easiest path to revenue that they can. But if you blend these things together, it gives a nice framework for how one takes talent through that process.”
He says that once this framework is established it is vital to communicate it effectively and frequently. “The saying ‘repetition is the mother of learning’ is completely true. It takes time to sink in, but if you put all those things together and make people competent, you can then remove some of the safety nets until the risk of not doing it is greater than the risk of doing it.”
He adds that not being afraid to fail is also key in moving quickly as an organisation. “We pride ourselves that we will call out quickly where we’re failing, because we’ll recognise it quicker than other people and that is actually a competitive advantage.”
4. He has built trust among McAfee’s people to get honest feedback
In order to give colleagues confidence to flag up things that are not working, Philpott says that McAfee has created feedback channels that allow concerns or ideas to be shared across the organisation.
“At a leadership level, on a weekly basis we have an extended leadership meeting of 90 minutes where marketing, HR and all manner of different leaders participate and have the opportunity to share updates on their domain.”
He also hosts quarterly meetings called ‘Post-It Sessions’ to allow frontline staff to feedback to him directly. “I’ll talk for five minutes and then I’ll shut up and let people ask any question they want to. I have built some trust with them by being candid and transparent and non-judgemental, and they feel they can ask questions and get an honest answer.”
Customer voices are also added to the mix of feedback, with all leaders going out to see clients, listen to them and alter their plans as a company accordingly. “We talk about diversity a lot and I think this is a good dimension of diversity,” says Philpott. “There’s no point in listening to one type of individual otherwise you’ll get a narrow breadth of input.”
5. McAfee have a clear plan for improving diversity in the tech industry
Of course, being open to hearing diverse voices is only half the battle. Like any technology business, the talent McAfee requires is scarce as it is, even before trying to ensure the organisation has a diverse workforce. A 2020 report from S&P Global examined IT departments in 550 companies worldwide and found that just under half of them said women accounted for less than 25 per cent of staff, while 9.5 per cent reported no women in their company’s IT department. It’s a challenge that Philpott says they are only too aware of within McAfee, but one they are working to address.
“I’m a big fan of facta, non verba – deeds not words – which is an appropriate phrase for diversity,” he says. “I think it’s important to contribute to the debate, but I’m really interested in the actions that we take as well. So, our primary focus when I joined was to put in place a gender diversity programme. That’s where we felt there was the biggest gap at McAfee.”
McAfee took steps to retain their existing female tech talent, such as implementing pay parity for all employees working in the same roles at the same level and location. “We felt so strongly about this cause at McAfee that we achieved full pay parity in just one year,” he explains. “This marks McAfee as the first cybersecurity company to reach pay parity for women globally and for under-represented professionals.”
However, they also worked to improve the numbers of women interviewing to join the organisation. From altering the language used in job descriptions, to ensuring there was always a minimum of one female candidate that made it to the interview stage of roles and putting women on each interview panel, McAfee has taken several steps, and Philpott says the numbers are going in the right direction.
“We massively increased our incoming female talent pipeline. It was around 23 per cent when I joined in 2017, and last year 39 per cent of our hires were female. That doesn’t mean that we’re at 39 per cent female talent overall, but it shows actions can drive results.”
He says that, more recently, he has begun focusing on ethnic diversity within the organisation, following the killing of George Floyd in 2020. “I’m from Bristol, a diverse UK city, I care about humanity and I wanted us to do something on ethnic diversity and inclusion as well. We’ve started working with a society college in London that has a very diverse population. We’re about to launch some of the things that we’re doing with them.”
Prioritising tasks is a big part of technology development, and Philpott says that this approach can also be helpful for organisations not sure where to start on improving diversity. “It’s not always about doing something global and massive, it’s about doing small things as well,” he adds. “Big things are made up of small differences, and that’s what we seek to do.”
6. McAfee’s previous strategy shift positioned them perfectly to take on the challenges of a pandemic
While McAfee has made its transformation to a cloud-first organisation over the past few years, the COVID-19 pandemic means that many other businesses have had to adopt similar approaches, some for the first time.
Philpott says that McAfee’s products were well placed to support their customers in this transition, but that they have still altered their approach slightly. “The strategy we have in place is robust because it was seeking to drive this change, and the pandemic has simply accelerated it,” he says. “That said, some things have changed, like how we prioritise different technologies working together. There’s definitely some change there that we’ve had to react to.
“Again, it comes back to early warning systems and being quick to recognise something has changed, understanding it and addressing it when we go to market. I think of it as a factory floor; the toolsets that we use to create a quality product are no different to that. We have telemetry in place that understands the quality of what we’re doing and the impact in the marketplace as well. That means we recognise where we need to improve as rapidly as possible.”
There was also a sharp spike in cyber attacks during the pandemic. Philpott says this is something McAfee was very aware of as customers faced these new threats. “In order to allow organisations to thrive, our role is to ensure we help them manage the dynamic risks to which they’re exposed,” he says. “These grow in both volume and sophistication, whilst the manpower required to address them is insufficient on its own. Ensuring efficiency, visibility and control, augmenting human capacity with intelligence and AI has been a key dimension of how our security architecture and its components have evolved.”
More widely, Philpott is considering which of the changes brought on by the pandemic will affect McAfee’s own operations in the longer term. “For me, one of the interesting things is what it will mean for how we consume real estate services in the future,” he says. “Life is about balance. We’re not all going to be working completely virtually, but equally we’re not all going to completely go back to the office because of pollution, the lost productivity in commuting and mental health challenges that come with that. Those things don’t make sense and nor does paying for real estate which sits there idle most of the time.
“Flexible consumption models – driven by data – can understand what we are using, what we can use more of and how we can tweak our real estate investment profile to reflect what we really need. I’m really keen to see what happens in that area.”
7. Philpott is continuing to let his career path unfold organically
Aside from organisational goals, Philpott also has his own ambitions. But, as with taking a late decision to pursue higher education, or taking a chance on a new career in Australia, they are broad and are likely to leave him with many different options to pursue in the future.
“While most of my roles have been about go-to-market leadership, I have never, ever conducted them as that. I have always taken a general management approach to them,” he says. “Having a good comprehension of trends and insights and toolsets that one can use across functions is of huge interest to me.”
To gain this insight, he has joined one board and is in the process of joining two others. By doing so he hopes to expand both his knowledge of cyber and of other functions, and allow his path to reveal itself to him. “No one can be an expert in everything, but broad leadership really interests me as an area to grow in,” he concludes. “Sometimes our skills lead us in the right direction, whether we know it or not.”
This blog was originally written as part of the Hays Journal.
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At the end of 2019, environmental, social and governance (ESG) momentum around the world was strong – especially with regard to improving the sustainability of many organisations. But then came COVID-19, forcing many businesses into survival mode. As the world recovers, how can businesses ensure that being greener moves back up the agenda?
Over the past few years, businesses have learned that attracting and retaining customers and employees alike goes hand-in-hand with reporting on and showing a commitment to making a positive impact on sustainability and society, otherwise known as environmental, social and governance (ESG).
Sustainability in particular has been moving up the agenda for many businesses, in an effort to attract both customers and talent. A 2020 IBM study found that 71 per cent of consumers surveyed indicated that traceability of products is very important to them, and that they are willing to pay a premium for brands that provide it. Meanwhile, HSBC’s 2019 Made for the future report found that 24 per cent of organisations said that one of the driving forces behind their investments in sustainability is to improve their ability to recruit and retain the best people.
Organisations have been responding accordingly. Just before the pandemic hit at the end of 2019, the proportion of S&P 500 firms reporting on their ESG performance surged to 90 per cent, from 20 per cent in 2011. Meanwhile, KPMG’s Survey of Sustainability Reporting 2020 has revealed that 80 per cent of companies now report on sustainability, compared with just 12 per cent when the consultancy began tracking sustainability reporting in 1993. The consultancy’s latest report surveyed 5,200 companies in 52 countries.
Also in 2019, the European Commission launched the European Green Deal, which aims to make Europe the first climate-neutral continent. But then COVID-19 hit. Would a pandemic pause, slow or completely halt sustainability progress?
The impact of COVID-19 on workplace sustainability
Patxi Zabala, Director of Corporate Social Responsibility at Spanish industrial and tech company Velatia, says that many companies’ sustainability operations took a hit as a result of having to go into survival mode.
“The impact caused by the COVID-19 crisis had negative effects on businesses, which have had to make decisions that, due to the urgency of managing the impact of the virus on the life of the company and from the economic point of view, are sometimes not entirely sustainable.”
For example, many organisations have had to introduce new rules that require colleagues to wear personal protective equipment, such as masks and gloves. While essential to keep people safe, many items are disposable or single use. However, Ryan Swenson, Head of Sustainable Development at Australia’s Officeworks, points out that sustainability reduction in some areas does not have to result in an overall reduction in sustainability performance. “The health, safety and wellbeing of team members and customers must remain the first priority, but this doesn’t mean sustainability practices have to be compromised,” he says. Despite the new demands on workers, in October 2020 Officeworks was still able to launch its Positive Difference Plan 2025 – a five-year strategy for the team, community and environment – and has continued to progress towards becoming a zero-waste business and its net zero goal.
How can organisations build sustainability into their post-COVID-19 recovery?
So as organisations look ahead, how can they ensure that sustainability moves back up their agenda and forms a part of their recovery? Zabala believes that it is important that businesses which have discovered more sustainable practices don’t revert to old habits when they reach the other side of the pandemic. “In those cases where the crisis is having a positive impact on more sustainable management in terms of ESG, businesses should consider maintaining these changes by identifying their sustainable purpose and the profitability associated with better and greater sustainable management,” he explains, adding that increased public awareness of the need for sustainability will “make it easy, not only to return to some sustainable practices but also to develop many others.”
For example, the pandemic has also seen a significant reduction in business travel, which normally accounts for 12 per cent of global transport emissions, equating to 915 million tonnes of CO2 in 2019. Yet during the pandemic, there has been an unprecedented reduction in overall air pollution of up to 60 per cent, which takes into account not only international travel but the daily commute, too. This has been made possible because remote working, something that wasn’t available across the board before the pandemic, has been forced upon employers and employees, who are utilising programs such as Slack, Zoom and Teams to continue to work effectively. A global survey undertaken by Slack in October 2020 revealed that 72 per cent of people would prefer a mixture of office- and remote-based working, with just 12 per cent wanting to return to the office full time.
Furthermore, some businesses (including Deloitte and PwC) have already gone on record to say that sustained business travel reduction will form part of their ongoing plans to reduce emissions to net zero. But looking further ahead, what can leaders do to ensure sustainability moves back up the agenda within their organisation?
1. Take the chance to change behaviours
For Professor Dr Laura Marie Edinger-Schons, Chair of Sustainable Business at Germany’s University of Mannheim, there is hope that these newfound sustainable practices will remain the norm. “Research on sustainable behaviours has repeatedly shown that it is very hard to change habitual behaviours and routines,” she explains. “Thus, this unexpected disruption of our normal work-related behaviours offers a great opportunity for permanent change.” She also adds that many unsustainable practices as a result of the pandemic can be once again removed from business when the pandemic is over. “During the pandemic some industries were forced to use more unsustainable business practices, for example due to an increased delivery of products or use of plastic packaging; however, many of these will not be necessary anymore after the pandemic.”
Companies can also look at ways to make commuting into work – wherever that may be in the future – more inclusive and sustainable, with nearly 25 per cent of employees having left a job because of the commute. Organisations can look to subsidise commute costs and provide alternatives to company cars – which have been shown to increase household vehicle use by 25 per cent – such as cycling schemes.
2. Challenge suppliers to be more sustainable
Businesses can also take the opportunity to revisit supply chains; for example, companies can indirectly become more climate resilient and fairer to society and individuals. “We can achieve more through collective action than as a single organisation, so collaboration with many of our stakeholders, including suppliers and government, is really important,” says Swenson. IKEA’s supplier code of conduct, for example, requires that suppliers meet their standards in areas including working hours, employee benefits and wages, chemicals, waste, business ethics, the environment, child labour and discrimination before IKEA will consider working with them. Meanwhile, German sporting goods company Vaude has engaged with the German Government and stakeholders to co-create the ‘Grüner Knopf’ (the green button), a sustainability label for its textiles.
These sorts of initiatives are requiring companies all over the world to be more transparent, which will lead to more companies needing to identify their own supply chain risks. This is something The Sustainability Consortium (a global non-profit sustainability organisation) is helping companies to do through its commodities mapping tool, which addresses where the risks are, what the risks are and how these issues can be addressed.
3. Encourage sustainable behaviour at all levels
Within business, however, it’s not just down to the upper echelon to encourage change. “It’s everybody’s responsibility to question the status quo and to participate in rebuilding and shaping our economy of the future. Of course top managers have greater power to change structures and processes, but employees are an equally important driver of change in organisations,” says Edinger-Schons. “And for those privileged few of us that are not facing existential threats due to the pandemic because we have secure jobs, I would say that our responsibility is even higher.”
But the responsibility to rebuild sustainability does not lie with businesses alone. Governments have a role to play here too – something that we’re already seeing in Spain. The country is set to receive around €140 billion from NextGenerationEU, the European Union’s recovery plan, which will go towards Spain’s Recovery, Transformation and Resilience Plan. The plan covers green fiscal reform and includes bringing forward the country’s Integrated National Energy and Climate Plan goals from 2025 to 2023, the introduction of 250,000 electric vehicles, boosting renewables, especially floating offshore wind farms, reinforcing the grid and investing in smart grids.
The business fabric of the plan has been framed in a document put together by the Spanish Confederation of Business Organisations. “It involves the entire value chain of companies. Through their awareness, and the implementation of a purchasing policy that incorporates ESG criteria, they must prominently emphasise the protection of human rights,” explains Zabala.
4. Make sustainability part of your organisational purpose
It’s easy to see how investing in industries that support existing sustainability momentum creates more jobs, and gives us a ‘greener’ normal after the pandemic. But what about the businesses whose existence was never based around these goals? We’ve already seen that investment banks and wealth managers are creating sustainability-focused portfolios, but what about those that, on paper, have very little need for interaction with sustainability practices?
“For several years now, companies have been worried about what new talent wants,” explains Megan Kashner, Clinical Assistant Professor and Director of Social Impact at Kellogg School of Management, Northwestern University. “Prospective employees want the company they work for to be purpose-driven, to be on the right side of sustainability and to feel their values align with the values of the company. As a result, we’re seeing an increase in jobs that are about sustainable supply chains, that are in clean energy, diversity, equity and inclusion, and that are focused on sustainable finance. We’re seeing some of the biggest financial institutions shift their hiring to put talent behind these necessary initiatives, which it might have seemed they were only giving lip service to previously.” She adds that although previously progress was slow in providing transparency where it wasn’t required by law, “something about the pandemic has accelerated that”, and companies are having to make sure people like what they find.
It’s also fair to expect one of the direct outcomes of the pandemic to be that companies proactively change their hiring policies, as Zabala explains: “2020 was a year of changes, and the health crisis highlighted the need for sustainable models, the great relevance companies have in society and their fundamental role in providing rapid responses to the most critical, global and unexpected situations. In fact, in this pandemic many companies have demonstrated exemplary behaviour by making their resources available to the community, responding to productive, health, economic, material and social needs.”
So whether it’s an increase in jobs directly in the field of tackling climate change, or in roles in businesses that put sustainability at the forefront of a company’s ethos, the experts believe more jobs are coming. Zabala concludes that intelligent organisations understand this opportunity.
“They are reorienting their business models, with investments of millions in some cases, and with a positive impact on their entire value chain with the creation of thousands of jobs.”
This blog was originally written as part of the Hays Journal.
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Organisations in the life sciences sector faced quickly evolving recruitment needs throughout the pandemic. But how have these differed around the world, and how can organisations ensure they stand out to candidates in this market?
Unsurprisingly in the face of COVID-19, the talent needs of the life sciences sector have evolved rapidly since the pandemic began.
While some roles in the sector have been highly sought after, others have remained flat or even seen demand fall. The need for rapid vaccine development saw a surge in demand in some areas, while clampdowns on non-essential services caused declines in others.
But how have different countries been affected by these changes to demand? Here are some of the challenges that have been felt by the life sciences sector around the world.
The contrasting talent demands across the globe in 2020
Australia faced fewer local restrictions, but organisations still got caught in international hiring freezes
Alice Kedie, Manager, Life Sciences for Hays Australia, explains how it has impacted the talent market in the region. “We have been fortunate to largely have had much fewer restrictions than many other countries, so this has allowed things to continue to a degree as before; although because many affiliate operations in Australia are linked to headquarters in Europe and the US, the country has still been affected by things like hiring freezes.
“From a sales and marketing perspective, organisations that supply ventilators, personal protective equipment and over-the-counter antiviral products experienced exponential growth,” she adds. “On the opposite end of the spectrum, government and hospital capital funding was diverted away from equipment and drugs that were not COVID-19-response related and, therefore, saw a fall in sales.”
Analytical talent is in high demand in the UK and Belgium
In the UK, contingent entry-level talent was in high demand to support testing efforts earlier in the pandemic. More recently however, the market has settled into business as usual. There are a lot of trials in vaccines and we’re seeing needs for data science roles at the back end of the trials. The drive is for technical disciplines such as health economists and healthcare specialists, that can use real-world evidence to support the long-term roll-out of vaccines as they compete with the others on the market.
The requirement for analytical talent is a common thread for many regions, not just in Australia and the UK. Yannick Chentout, Team Leader – Life Sciences, Hays Belgium, says Belgium is another country experiencing a shortage of talent on this front: “For instance, testing centres are looking for laboratory technicians to analyse PCR tests, but a laboratory technician won’t remain on the labour market more than few days.”
Mexico and Poland saw the need for marketing and sales talent grow
Mariusz Popin, Senior Manager, Life Sciences, Hays Poland, says that a push to market products more effectively has driven talent demands. “One of the key tasks in Poland during the pandemic was the reorganisation of sales departments, as well as the need to develop new channels to reach doctors and patients,” he says. “We have noticed a greater demand for recruitment in the areas of digital marketing, regulatory affairs and clinical trials.”
Similar trends have also been observed in Mexico, with organisations requiring talent to facilitate clear, ambitious and aggressive sales and marketing strategies in order to increase their market share and productivity. Meanwhile in China, the country perhaps furthest into its journey through the pandemic, there has been demand for research and development, regulatory, and quality assurance talent.
Manufacturing activity fell in France
Elsewhere, France saw a fall in pharma manufacturing activity. Lockdowns meant some facilities shut down for a time, which in turn caused slow restart procedures to begin manufacturing safely again. Over-the-counter drug consumption also fell, with lockdowns reducing seasonal illness in the country.
The country has, however, seen a rise in the need for specific healthcare talent. Geriatric doctors have been required to support at-risk older people in the country, while emergency doctors were in demand to support a surge in demand in hospitals. Psychologists are also sought after to help understand the longer-term effects of lockdowns.
Different countries now face diverse hiring challenges
Polish organisations are looking to hire from abroad
As well as facing different talent needs, organisations operating in the life sciences sector are also facing different local hiring challenges. In Poland, Popin says that organisations sometimes have to turn to talent outside the country when they are opening new operations in the country. “It happens when we support life sciences companies in opening regional or global support centres,” he explains. “It is necessary to recruit large teams with rare skills and from a niche specialisation (or therapeutic area) with regional or global experience. More and more often we engage foreign candidates who decide to relocate and continue their professional career in Poland.”
Australia is short on clinical research skills and entry-level development
Meanwhile in Australia, Kedie says there is a shortage of clinical research skills, as the country has become an increasingly desirable place to conduct clinical trials. “This is not only because quality of clinical trial data is very strong here, but arguably because hospitals are not overrun with COVID-19 patients,” she explains.
“There is also a lack of development at the entry-level and limited opportunities for training and development of STEM graduates to enter into technical roles within the industry,” she says. “More university intern partnerships would help this.”
New talent pools need to be explored in Mexico
There may also be an opportunity for businesses in some regions if they were to look in other talent pools. In Mexico, for example, it has proved challenging to recruit sales and marketing professionals for organisations that are unwilling to consider candidates with experience in other industries or sectors. While candidates with direct experience will have a shorter learning curve, the pool of talent is smaller, so looking elsewhere may be a better option.
The UK must overcome changes to immigration post-Brexit
Finally, in the UK, companies are facing challenges relating to Brexit – like other sectors, life sciences organisations have new systems to navigate when hiring talent from abroad. By understanding these systems, organisations should be able to go further afield for talent. Over the next 12 months, organisations are going to get used to a points-based immigration system in the UK, and work out how it can work for them. Understanding that will be a key part of talent strategy going forward.
This blog was originally written as part of the Hays Journal.
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Many organisations have made good progress in improving the diversity of their workforce in recent years. But could understanding and embracing intersectionality help them improve the experience of all employees?
Diversity is not a linear issue. As companies seek to be representative of the communities they operate in and that make up their workforce, many still consider their diversity efforts in distinct, singular characteristics. For example, gender, race, ethnicity, sexuality and disability. But the reality is that any number of these categories overlap and intersect.
What is intersectionality?
In 1989, legal scholar Kimberlé Crenshaw wrote a paper coining the term ‘intersectionality’, as a way to explain the oppression of African-American women. The term has been used ever since and, in 2022, it still has as much relevance as it did in 1989. Crenshaw describes intersectionality as “a lens through which you can see where power comes and collides, where it interlocks and intersects. It’s not simply that there’s a race problem here, a gender problem, and a class or LGBTQ problem there”.
Adwoa Bagalini, Engagement, Diversity and Inclusion Lead at the World Economic Forum (WEF), explains why intersectionality is just as important now as it was in 1989. In an article for the WEF, she says that diversity and inclusion programmes that do not take intersectionality into account risk overlooking the experiences of those who are marginalised. For example, “while white women will reach gender parity with men in the States in 2059, the data shows that for Black women this date is 2130, and 2224 for Hispanic women.”
Lauren Baker, COO at Skillsize, a talent intelligence platform, describes intersectionality as “the overlapping of identities such as race, gender and sexuality and recognising the differences both between and within them, as well as the overall effect this can have on an individual’s experiences”.
Why is intersectionality important for organisations?
A 2019 report by Culture Amp, titled Workplace Diversity, Inclusion, and Intersectionality, gives an example of how intersectionality could present itself at work. “Intersectionality considers different systems of oppression, and specifically how they overlap and are compounded to shape the employee experience. For example, within gender, a 31-year-old white woman with no children will likely have a very different experience to a 42-year-old Black woman with two children. Intersectionality means we view the whole person, not their characteristics separately.”
Baker says that intersectionality is hugely important to businesses, “to not only promote diversity within their organisation but understand how different people are affected and take the necessary action to mitigate negative outcomes”.
So, why is intersectionality such a key issue for businesses to be aware of? “It’s a blind spot that’s easy for many organisations to miss, even as they strive to foster more inclusive work environments,” Bagalini explains. “All stages of the employee journey may be impacted by intersectionality, from recruitment to onboarding, performance reviews and promotions to turnover rates. Who is leaving and why? Who is being referred to the organisation by friends or colleagues? If employees sense that they are not welcome and cannot bring their full selves to work, then they will likely find it difficult to advance, will not refer the company to others in their network, and will probably leave sooner than others.”
Antonio Macías, HR Manager for the Iberia region at Edwards Lifesciences, adds that the pandemic revealed even more clearly the different experiences individuals are facing: “We need to embrace and welcome these differences to continue building stronger businesses that can overcome the times we are living in.”
Six ways organisations can improve on intersectionality
So, while it is clear that it’s important for organisations to recognise and understand intersectionality, what can they do to improve in this area? Here are six steps to take.
1. Recognise individual identities
Companies should seek to develop a better understanding of intersectionality and recognise an individual’s multiple identities that may overlap. Awareness is key here, but as Bagalini explains, the willingness to acknowledge the ‘blind spot’ also needs to be addressed. “More often than not, leaders may be complacent about practices within their organisations and believe that, since they and their colleagues feel welcome at work, the same is true for everyone,” she explains. Developing empathy and being sure to check in with others who identify differently is important to get a sense of what could be done better, she adds.
Enabling employees to identify their diversity dimensions voluntarily is a crucial starting point, as are employee engagement surveys where data is reasonably disaggregated by several of those dimensions. Doing so can then reveal the different experiences of different groups.
For example, McKinsey’s Women in the Workplace Report 2020 found that, while 46 per cent of men had felt stressed during the pandemic, 53 per cent of women said they had felt the same way. Yet this rose to 61 per cent of women with disabilities. There were also different experiences for women of different races. The survey found that 55 per cent of white women had felt stressed compared with 47 per cent of Asian women, 49 per cent of Latina women and 47 per cent of Black women.
2. Capture data to improve intersectionality
But while insightful, how can this sort of data be captured in the first place? “It’s important for every organisation to have good, up-to-date, diversity data,” says Monica Parker, Founder of HATCH Analytics, a data analytics company. “This is most easily collected by anonymous surveys sent out to the business. The key for this type of data is to get very high response rates, as otherwise its extrapolation may not be accurate, especially when looking at intersectionality.”
She says that achieving this is dependent on employees having high levels of trust in their organisation. They must be clear that equality, diversity and inclusion (ED&I) is more than just a box-ticking exercise. And while anonymous data may not identify specific intersectional segments, it can begin to give a broader picture on the nuances of the lived experiences of various team members. Organisations can then use this data to support ED&I initiatives such as affinity groups, conscious inclusion training and benchmarking. “Where you can, encourage people to tell their own stories of intersectionality and ways they have felt accepted or rejected based on their unique experience,” she says.
The final part of the data journey is to respond. “This is the simplest and hardest element of any ED&I initiative,” Parker says. She encourages organisations to set a goal, try to deliver on it, and make the whole process transparent. “I believe that if you collect data about ED&I, you have an obligation to do something tangible and measurable with it,” she concludes.
3. Create a culture of acknowledgement and understanding
Companies need to understand the scope of intersectionality so they can address those challenges directly. But how can businesses support their employees in reaching their full potential, without labelling them?
Baker says that labelling employees can create a biased perspective, which can in turn lead to unfair treatment and injustice. “This can significantly affect the morale of employees, especially if labelled negatively and unfairly,” she says. Baker explains that the key is to ensure employees feel empowered and have the full backing of the organisation. She suggests that this could take form as encouraging peer-led communities to grow and organising company-wide events to enable the “sharing of knowledge, bringing people together in learning and understanding others in the workplace and the range of diversities”.
Bagalini suggests consulting with the employees concerned to seek their input, and encourages companies not to necessarily shy away from labels, but use them to prompt conversations instead. “Many employees from under-represented groups do embrace labels as a way of reclaiming their identities and being empowered by them, instead of shying away. It is frequently hurtful for people of colour to hear from well-meaning colleagues that they ‘don’t see colour’, thereby effectively erasing their experiences of discrimination and absolving themselves of any responsibility to act,” she explains.
Baker says that obtaining a culture of acknowledgement and understanding helps to build and sustain an environment of openness and inclusion, giving confidence to both a company’s employees and customers that they are socially responsible and trustworthy. “With a workforce that trusts they have equal opportunities and their mental wellbeing is cared for, comes a higher level of satisfaction for individuals and an increased level of productivity and engagement for the organisation,” she says.
4. Capture diversity of thought
A workforce made up of people from different backgrounds with various abilities and experiences has a positive impact on the organisation as a whole. According to McKinsey’s Diversity Wins report, published in May 2020, “There is ample evidence that diverse and inclusive companies are likely to make better, bolder decisions – a critical capability in the [COVID-19] crisis.”
But while diversity of thought is beneficial to businesses, how does it relate to intersectionality? “Diversity of thought is the concept of our thinking being shaped by our backgrounds, culture, experiences and personalities,” explains Baker. “This relates to intersectionality by being able to take a broader approach in how we view others and appreciate the different elements of their identities, without stereotyping people or considering them as part of only one particular group.
“Diversity of thought is significantly important in organisations, as is the active consideration and enactment of equal opportunities,” says Baker.
“It is essential that companies can fully distinguish between the need to embrace diversity and inclusion and the need to harness a range of experiences and thought processes, to accelerate its strategic objectives.” She explains that businesses can harness this by understanding their people at a deeper level, considering not only professional but personal background and also considering competencies and psychometric ability. “The knowledge of this insight across its resources, in conjunction with a lens of diversity allows organisations to breed dynamic creativity, ideas and workforce agility whilst maintaining a culture of inclusiveness.”
While Bagalini agrees that diversity of thought is important, she warns against companies overtly striving for this “as it tends to provide an excuse or a cover not to address the thornier aspects of inclusion work”. She explains that, even in the same family, it would be difficult to find two people who think exactly alike, so it can be safely assumed that an organisation will have diversity of thought present regardless. “The same principles that go into harnessing the advantages of all other kinds of diversity apply here, namely when employees feel psychologically safe and can express themselves without fear, companies will better be able to reap the benefits of having employees who think differently from each other. Therefore, I am fairly confident that in pursuing goals of inclusion and equity for everyone regardless of identity, diversity of thought will be enhanced rather than suppressed.”
5. Help leaders to understand intersectionality
Intersectionality is important and complex, and organisations need to give consideration to how they equip their leaders with the confidence and skills to address these issues.
Each of us has a unique view of the world that has been shaped by our own unique, lived experience and our overlapping identities. Organisations should be asking themselves how to build high trust cultures and environments in which people are given the permission and the confidence to have meaningful conversations, encouraging people to have a curiosity about others’ lived experiences.
I am not suggesting that this is easy to navigate; it’s challenging, delicate and confronting. I recommend engaging an external specialist to help facilitate conversations about bias awareness. This can help to build confidence and give leaders a set of tools and a vocabulary to help them to have these conversations with each other and with their people.
Inclusive leadership is about creating a high-trust culture; proactively seeking out or inviting divergent points of view, rather than being the single point of authority with all of the answers. This can feel counterintuitive, but leaders who ask for (and really listen to) others’ points of view tend to build higher trust environments for their colleagues.
Organisations can help develop more inclusive leadership practices by clearly articulating why inclusion is important. If people think your messaging is to ‘tick boxes’ they will not engage with it. It is also important to support your most senior leaders in their development so that they can be role models of more inclusive leadership behaviours.
6. Educate colleagues on intersectionality
But while leadership is important, to positively progress a company’s diversity and inclusion interests across a whole organisation, a level of understanding must exist across the entire workforce. Macías says that diversity should not be the reserve of marketing material for organisations, and that it should be embedded within the culture of a workplace. “The culture of a company is the experiences that your employees are living on a daily basis, therefore, you have to make sure your employees are living in a diverse environment as part of their regular work,” he says. “Your employees are the best ambassadors of your company and your culture,” he notes.
This can be contributed to by introducing formal and informal education on diversity themes, Baker suggests. “A more formal approach that ensures everyone gets the necessary exposure could be in the form of a mandatory learning and development curriculum that covers important topics, such as intersectionality, creating a culture of inclusion and how to be an ally to colleagues,” she says.
In contrast, a more informal approach with a reliance on peer-to-peer networks can help to develop a consistent culture of diversity acceptance, she explains. For example, the mixing of these networks can be advanced into the social interaction between employees, such as celebrations of global cultural events including Pride, Diwali and Black History Month.
Baker says colleagues can be allies by trying to understand, and directly acknowledging and addressing, how privilege contributes to oppressive systems. “Having this understanding can help promote further education. The responsibility for this is wider than just that of the marginalised group,” she notes.
Bagalini says that, as well as using intranets or other internal communications channels to share information on the topic of intersectionality, it is worth encouraging employee resource groups to form and share information with their peers. “Making sure that this is embedded within ongoing events and initiatives rather than seeing it as an entirely separate workstream” is also crucial.
“Within almost every topic that organisations communicate to employees about, there are opportunities to point out how these support goals of diversity and belonging – so the task is to find those opportunities and use them, and eventually make sure that this becomes second nature,” she concludes.
This blog was originally written as part of the Hays Journal.
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So today, we’re joined by Leadership Coach Simi Rayat and Rhonda Williams, CEO of Dream Life Academy, who are here to share the key challenges that female leaders of colour face and how to best overcome these obstacles.
1. Please could you introduce yourself to our listeners? Simi let’s start with you.
(01:02) My name is Simi Rayat. My background is a Chartered Business Psychologist, I work as an Executive Leadership Coach and I help corporate leaders to develop their leadership brilliance. So, I work with a lot of female leaders globally to help them progress to senior positions, particularly women of colour. I’m the founder and owner of a thriving psychology coaching practice here in London called Wellbeing Face, I’m super excited to be part of this conversation with you both today and I really appreciate the space to discuss such an important topic.
2. And, Rhonda, how about yourself? Please, could you let us know a little bit about your background and your current role?
(01:42) Absolutely, I’m so excited to be here with you. So, my name is Rhonda Williams and I am an emotional intelligence strategist. I also am an executive coach helping leaders to get more consistent outcomes in the work that they do. I also work with women of colour in particular, to help them pursue and obtain executive level roles. By background, I’m a registered nurse and I’ve spent lots of time in hospitals and in leadership positions. I’ve held executive level roles such as Chief Nursing Officer and hospital CEO and a couple of VP level positions as well, one for a global organisation. And so, I’m very excited about this conversation, this is a very important topic that’s near and dear to my heart.
3. Now, I wanted to begin by asking you what has been your experience of being a woman of colour in the corporate world so far in your career?
(02:39) Really great question, Megan. It’s been interesting. I’ve had an amazing experience in my career. I have had some amazing opportunities that I’ve worked really hard for. I’ve also experienced some challenges along the way. And each of those challenges, in them, I find that there is an opportunity for learning and thinking about what I can take away and what can I add to my toolbox.
Some of those challenges are frankly because you’re a woman of colour, but it’s so important to me that we understand what that means and how that contributes to the wholeness of who we are. There’s a saying in the black community that says, “You have to work twice as hard for half as much.” Well, this is absolutely a saying and a myth that I’d love to see end. There is no reason for women of colour to feel like they must work any harder than anyone else because I personally don’t believe that success is synonymous with “hard work,” whatever that means. It’s important that you show up in your full and authentic self and that you take ownership of what that means but some of your experience is directly connected to those above and below you. And I want all of your listeners to really hear this.
Sometimes it’s not about how hard you’re working. You may simply be in a place that is either supporting, helping and uplifting you or you may be in an environment that is hindering you in some way. And it’s up to you to identify that and then take decisive actions to help manage and minimise that. So, some of it is your environment and the network that you build but even so, we have amazing opportunities in front of us.
4. Has your experience changed during the course of the pandemic and as a result of the Black Lives Matter movement?
(04:33) It’s so interesting. Being here in the States and living the whole Black Lives Matter movement front and centre, my experience is that it really has not changed during the pandemic, unfortunately so. The core issues that exist for women of colour are still here, they are deeply embedded, systemic and structural. We hear these stories every single day.
As I talk to leaders who are looking to pursue those higher-level positions, they share stories every single day that let us know that this has not changed. What is amazing and positive is there is more awareness and simply having awareness gives us the ability to elevate the conversation and approach this a little bit differently.
As I said earlier, it’s so important for us to know that even though this truly hasn’t changed yet, I think there is small movement and progress and we still have to be in that position of taking ownership of ourselves and our circumstances. We simply cannot wait for the world to be fairer. So, self-ownership, in my view, is really the path to true success.
5. For those listening who may be of other genders and/or races, how can they go about truly understanding what the unique experiences of women of colour and indeed those of other minorities in their organisations are? What role do organisations have in facilitating this?
(06:06) That’s a great question, Megan. Creating the dialogue and raising the awareness is key. It’s about being curious to listen, to learn, not to judge or assume, which needs to be encouraged and led from the top, so from the board.
And I think it’s about creating a culture of psychological safety where people feel accepted and respected. So, this can be through forums and open discussions where people of all backgrounds, genders, levels within the organisation can talk about their experiences and share their ideas on how the organisation can become more diverse and inclusive. And then in turn, have these ideas turned into strategic initiatives that are owned and supported by senior leaders. Reaching out to external providers, diversity, and inclusion specialists to really facilitate these conversations, to enable those conversations to happen more openly and to foster healthy conversations around this topic is absolutely vital.
And I think, to add to that point, it’s also then using this insight and involving different levels in the organisation as part of the co-creation of the policy. And it’s so important that the new policies are designed by the diverse representation of the organisation’s employees. And the sessions that I talk about in terms of facilitating those conversations, they can be on topics around what it is like in terms of flexible working in the organisation, what is the promotions process like, what is the recruitment process like, what are people’s experiences around being managed and being led in the organisation.
So, I think that real curiosity to learn and not to assume is massively critical here. And I think, also, it’s really becoming aware of our own unconscious bias. And then this goes beyond just the unconscious bias training that happens in the training forums in organisations but it’s ensuring that those conversations continue outside of the training so that it’s part of the everyday conversations and our interactions with others and it’s part of how we show up when we are working and we are interacting with others.
6. Now, Rhonda, in 2020, it was reported that of all Fortune 500 CEOs, 1% were black, 2% were Asian, 2% were Latino, and 5% were women. What do you think has led to this and what steps do those at the top need to make to improve these statistics?
(08:53) Well, when I hear those numbers, I think to myself “Why is this? How did we get here?” And if we rewind and we think about the history, obviously, for years and years, business was dominated by the white males and that just was the way that it was. And so, there’s a systemic process that’s built into sustaining this. It’s not always something that we’re trying to do, it just happens.
For instance, Simi mentioned the promotion process. If you are with an organisation and you have an opening, what are you likely to do? You’re likely to think about those in your network that might be a good fit for this. Well, who’s in your network? If everyone in your network looks like you, then you can see how it would easily lead to someone looking like you getting the position. And that doesn’t mean that you’re approaching it with any malintent. It simply believes that we must be more thoughtful in how we bring this forward.
So, organisations, really must look closely at this. And as they think about where they are, Simi mentioned becoming curious, so where are we, who are we. One way to really engage this curiosity is to conduct an assessment of the organisation – “Where are we in terms of diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging?”. I recommend that that be done by an external, third party or an independent source. You don’t want yourself internally going through and asking these questions because we know we have biases, we know we love our organisations, we know that we have positive intent. So, having an external person come in and help you with this to engage with you as a partner to say “Where are we? Are we really elevating our environment of belonging?” and then looking at those gaps that may arise out of the survey.
And so, when you’ve finished the survey, you’re likely to say, “We’re doing really great in some areas and we have some opportunities”. Well, where do we close those gaps? How can we bring the entire team together and really begin to live our values to understand that who we aspire to be as an organisation has to be reflected in the type of team that we build and the environment that we build? I think that’s really important.
As we do the assessment, it’s so important to know that the idea is not about judgment and there is no blaming. This is simply about understanding where you are versus where you would like to be and then engaging in very substantive actions that go beyond performative statements. One of my pet peeves is performative actions and statements. I put a sign up or I post on social media and I say “Yes, Black Lives Matter and we support that” but there’s no real action, no real substance behind it. So, to really move the organisation forward, it requires substantive actions and it requires the organisational leaders to truly commit to lasting and sustainable change.
7. And Simi, following on from some of Rhonda’s points just now, many organisations have hired heads of or directors of diversity and inclusion. How important is it that these people have a regular communication to the C-suite?
(12:31) I think it’s absolutely critical and commitment to gender, cultural diversity needs to come from the board. The target setting, the budget allocation, appointing leaders that are responsible for gender, race, diversity and inclusion, fostering a culture of inclusion and measuring the success of these initiatives, the accountability needs to start from the top.
I think that the progress in the last decade has been made in terms of organisations hiring specific leaders of diversity and inclusion but it’s often one person or a small team but it needs to be championed at different levels in the organisation and in local geographies as well. And I also believe middle managers have a greater influence than perhaps they realise to foster and role model those behaviours to a broader spectrum of employees that are looking up from entry-level roles and looking up to them and beyond.
I think, also, essentially it needs to be wider and not just be the spoken values of the organisation, but it needs to be actioned. As Rhonda said, it needs to be actioned through the policies, through the way structured processes are designed and it needs to be experienced and felt by every person in the organisation. And that can only happen if it is ingrained within the systems the way in which organisations and people within those organisations collaborate, communicate, and how decisions are designed to make.
8. And what do you think are the unique challenges and issues faced by women of colour in the workplace, regardless of role or seniority? What role do leaders and organisations have in helping overcome these?
(14:28) I think there are unique challenges that are real for women of colour. And, in fact, we don’t refer to it as the glass ceiling metaphor. We refer to it as a concrete ceiling, illustrating that it’s even tougher for women of colour more so than white females going through the higher ranks of an organisation to the highest ranks within an organisation. And I categorise these unique challenges into three main areas.
The first one really is around stereotypes and perceptions. So, often women of colour will feel that they’re overlooked, and they’ll feel somewhat invincible in an organisation. Quite often we’re judged by false stereotypes and quite often we will need to justify why we’ve made certain decisions and questions. I was working with an Indian CEO leader a short while back and the stories that she was sharing with me in terms of how her decisions as a CEO were still being questioned in certain parts of her role whereas male counterparts in senior positions, their decisions weren’t being half as questioned or at all questioned as they were with her.
Also, I think it goes back to Rhonda’s point that most women of colour do grow up with the belief that you have to be twice as good as them to be successful, that you have to work really hard. And often this is a perception that women of colour hold that to get ahead, we do have to work harder, we must work longer hours. And in some ways, we end up overcompensating and doing a lot more without it being recognised and acknowledged.
Also, when a woman of colour exerts assertiveness, that can be perceived as being angry or a bossy woman rather than being perceived as a respected and an assertive leader. It’s quite interesting because the spots at the top are very limited as well for females, let alone for women of colour. So, there’s often that perception as well but maybe I’m rejected by other women of colour especially when there are so few seats at the top.
The second area really is around opting out. So, when we look up in the organisation and we see that the role models that are in the most senior positions in the organisation, many women who get to these positions tend to emulate a lot of masculine qualities. And when women or aspiring female leaders look up to them, they don’t feel that they can relate to those qualities or they feel that they don’t align with those behaviours or those values and they don’t want to conform so, they opt out.
Also, there are too few role models. There are not enough women at the top that embody the diversity of the employees that are looking up to them. So, our biological need to fit in, we see this as a threat, and this encourages us again to opt out because no one at the top looks like me or talks like me or is going to understand me.
And I think the other point is around being torn between being authentic and stimulating. And we tend to opt out in terms of sharing the more personal and vulnerable side of ourselves. Many women of colour feel that personal information they may share about themselves or if they reveal too much, they fear that that could be used against them. So, not opening up and having that authentic real self can be quite hard to bring to the workplace, especially when you are trying to head for those more senior positions.
Finally, I would say it’s about not being supported, so quite often being overlooked. Women of colour tend to need to go actively to find their own mentors. Quite a lot of managers may not be in tune with their career goals and therefore, they may not feel supported. And perhaps they’re less likely to have bosses that are going to promote their work contributions to others and really help them navigate the organisational politics or socialise them outside of work.
So, often they’re left feeling on the outside of these informal networks but, as we know, a lot of those informal networks do propel a lot of high potentials forward in their careers. And I think it’s really important in terms of a lack of mentorship, sponsorship or allies, as we know these individuals or networks and particular roles in these networks do play a critical role in terms of getting ahead and supporting women to get ahead.
So, going back to your question in terms of what managers can do. I think, companies have already invested a lot in diversity and inclusion training, which is great, the unconscious bias training but it really has to go beyond this. And it starts with what Rhonda said in terms of having a real honest assessment of where we are now on our recruitment practices, retention, cultural audience, talent development plans. Where are we? Let’s have that real honest assessment now, measure those clearly against best practice and also then recognise where we need to be. Once we know the gap, it’s then looking at how those policies and how those strategies can be designed more appropriately. And, again, coming back to the co-production point, I think that’s really important here.
And I think the other final point to really raise is around women of colour and especially not just women of colour but women generally tend to not put themselves forward for roles unless they feel that they have got all of the skills and qualifications, whereas men are likely to be more likely to take that risk and put themselves forward.
So, even with recruitment practices, it’s also looking at why not assessment of potential, not just competencies because, as we know, a few executives have all of the competencies of an executive. Women of colour are less likely to put themselves forward unless they feel that they have all the experience. So, by assessing for potential and assessing for things like learning agility, curiosity, self-insight, engagement, determination, these are all really good ways to widen and broaden the candidate talent pool and it’s also illustrating to female leaders that you don’t have to be there exactly right now but you can still put yourself forward for promotions and the senior opportunities and make it known that you are wanting to get ahead.
Thank you, Simi, and I agree the concrete ceiling is a very powerful and a very telling metaphor.
9. Rhonda, do you think women of colour in particular feel they can’t call out any bias or inequality they may be experiencing in the workplace? And what can employers do to help their employees feel comfortable raising concerns and opening this conversation?
(21:59) This goes directly to one of the points that Simi made and, Simi, your points were amazing in that previous response. And one of the things that you mentioned is feeling like you can show up as your authentic self. And that’s so important for women of colour in the workplace. We are all unique and different and we bring something different. And there we talk about valuing diversity but truly valuing in the way that we allow everyone in our environment to feel true to themselves. It took me many years to feel that I could open-up in the workspace and be my authentic self because of the things that Simi mentioned. I was concerned whether I going to fit in, was I going to be judged for certain things, but as I’ve gotten older and really began to lean more into who I am, that’s become a little bit easier for me.
So, now I celebrate that I’m a woman who absolutely loves NFL football and I sit around on Sundays and I watch football with my sons and we eat too much and we have drinks and we have fun and I don’t watch love stories and I love action movies. And so, all the things and all the fullness of who we are as women of colour, we absolutely need to be comfortable bringing that in a judgment-free place.
And so, as we think about whether we feel if we can speak up about bias or inequalities, if we don’t feel that we are in that place of psychological safety or represented, then you tend to default to that self-preservation mode or what Simi referred to as opting out. You don’t feel safe because you will be judged too harshly, you’re now going to be viewed as the complainer.
There was a study that was done that shows that when people of colour in general bring concerns forward, it is viewed as whining. I want your listeners to hear this. If I, as a woman of colour, came forward and said “Well, hey, I’m going to just share how I felt in X, Y, and Z. Here’s what happened,” people are often viewing us as “Oh, here they go again. They’re complaining and whining” where if we had someone, one of our white counterparts, bring that very same issue forward, it’s received differently. And that’s a study that’s been repeated, and so, the results continue to be the same.
So, what does that tell us? It’s not always safe to come forward. And so, organisations must work hard and be intentional in creating that space of awareness, of openness, inclusion and not only inclusion, but of belonging. Instead of just waiting for someone to bring forward, ask and get curious, as Simi mentioned. Ask folks how things are doing, how they are feeling. Ask general questions about “Do you feel safe here? Do you feel like you can be yourself? And if not, what can we do?”.
The leaders don’t have to have all the answers. Sometimes the team that is working with you, they’re more than willing to help in solutioning but we have got to ask the questions. And so, being comfortable calling out biases or inequities requires you to build trust with your team. And trust is not an event, trust is a journey and it can be violated or broken at any point and you may hit the reset button to zero and then you must rebuild it. It’s an ongoing evolving type of element that exists in your organisations.
So, in today’s challenging climate, we should be asking the questions, we should be intentionally engaging in trust building behaviours because there are behaviours that build trust and then there are behaviours that cause trust to feel violated or it reduces trust in your organisation. So, creating that place of psychological safety typically is not accidental. This is an intentional act and journey by the organisation so that women of colour can feel comfortable speaking up about biases or inequities because that is the only way the organisation can grow and can improve.
(Simi – 26:27) Can I just add to those amazing points, Rhonda? Your point around trust, I think, is so important about trust and being intentional. And often, I think, as leaders we think trust is sweeping in a moment of crisis and being the superhero and saving the day but it’s really not about that. Trust is really built over time through small significant moments. And I think quite often as leaders we forget that and really recognising that through those small moments of time, frequently demonstrating opportunities where trust can be built, that’s how trust is built with a leader and their teams.
(27:16 – Rhonda) Absolutely, Simi, and what’s important about that is that as leaders and organisations are looking to build trust, it has to go across all levels of the organisation. We want to be mindful of the fact that trust does not come by issuing a pay cheque, right? A pay cheque is not synonymous with trust. Trust comes in the way that you interact and the way that you treat your team.
10. Rhonda, how important do you feel sponsorship and mentorship is in helping women of colour progress their careers and helping leaders advocate for this?
(28:05) This is such an important question. And I think the first place we start with sponsorship and mentorship is understanding the difference between the two. So, if you are a woman of colour and you are in the workspace and the workplace, it’s important to know if you are in need of sponsorship or mentorship to understand the difference between the two and the value that that can bring in terms of not only your career growth but also your personal growth.
So, I view mentorship as a relationship. It’s often a relationship that is a pull relationship. And by pull, I mean, you are likely to be the one initiating the interaction with your mentor, you will be the person who is going forward saying to your mentor “Hey, can I get on your calendar? Can we spend a couple of minutes? What can you share? What did you see here? What was your experience?” So, you’re actively seeking out that information many times in a mentor relationship. Often the mentor relationship is unpaid. It is someone who believes in you and is willing to invest their own time and energy in helping you grow and seeing you succeed.
A sponsor is very different. A sponsor is a person that you are looking to with the distinct goal of helping you move your career forward. Sometimes and likely they are a person who is within organisation while a mentor can be internal or external. So, a mentor can be anyone that you look up to, that you have respect for, and that you feel comfortable with. A sponsor is going to be someone who’s within the organisation and they are operating from a position of privilege and power. And that sponsor is going to be the one who is bringing you forward. They are elevating your voice. They are championing for you both when you are in the room with them and when you’re not.
How amazing is it to have a sponsor that is in a closed-door meeting and a subject comes up which you are an expert in and that sponsor says “You know what, I think Simi would be an amazing person to bring into this. She’s got this skillset. She’s been a dynamic part of our team and I would love to see her have the opportunity here.” That sponsor is really advocating for you behind the scenes. The sponsor is also going to come to you and share some feedback with you because this is how you’re going to grow. The sponsors should have your permission to bring forward anything that they feel can help you. For example, if you were showing up in the workplace and you are not showing confidence, you are not being consistent, or bringing your full self to work in a way that people can really begin to see you at those elevated levels. The sponsors should have your permission to share that feedback with you. You should create that space for them knowing that their desire is to help you succeed.
Also, I want to say this important point about sponsorship because I’m working with a partner, we are designing a program for sponsorship in an organisation. And a part of your question was how leaders can advocate for this. For many organisations, if you are a large Fortune 500 organisation, you should have a formal sponsorship program. If you are even a mid-sized business, you should have a formal sponsorship program, meaning your sponsor knows what it means to be a sponsor, they are understanding and accepting of that role. The worst thing we can do is try to make someone a sponsor who does not desire to be a sponsor and doesn’t know how to be a sponsor.
So, creating formalised structures and processes around it, this is a part of what I mentioned earlier in terms of truly committing to substantive actions, to going beyond performative, to creating processes and structures that are going to support your efforts for diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging. So, the difference between a mentor and a sponsor and helping the sponsors receive the education so that they can be amazing sponsors and help elevate the voices, competence, and the potential of women of colour in the workspace.
11. What role does allyship play in really tackling inequality in the workplace?
(32:59) I love this, and this is so important. And I think we touched on this a little bit earlier, as you stated, Meghan. For allyship, it is about number one, are you empathetic with women of colour and those in the workplace that might be from marginalised communities which is a term that I don’t particularly care for but it is one that is popular. So, I’ll use it in that vein. Are you understanding of that?
And then, are you an ally, meaning are you saying “I believe in this. I believe diversity, equity and inclusion is the right thing to do, it’s the human thing to do and I am willing to commit myself to being involved and being a part of the solution”? If that is you, then you have the potential to be an amazing ally. And as an ally, what we ask is that you continue to lift the voices, to point out biases and equities. It cannot always be the person of colour pointing it out.
As I referenced this study earlier, we know when it is only the person of colour pointing it out, then it just is viewed as “Blah, blah, blah. Here they are whining again” but when others are pointing it out, it gets a different level of attention. So, we absolutely need our allies to step forward and speak up. For women of colour, one of the challenges that we sometimes face is maybe we’re in a meeting and we make a statement or we put forth a solution or an idea and we’ll get sort of a cursory “Oh, well, that’s lovely” and then we’ll move on to the next person. Well, when our white counterpart puts forth the same idea and everyone goes “Well, that’s brilliant. We absolutely love that,” the role of an ally in that situation is to step forward and say “Oh, you think this is a great idea. That’s so wonderful that you agree with the point Rhonda made earlier. So, how can we come together and move this forward?”
It’s a little subtle raising of awareness that we need. The role of an ally is to speak out. And that doesn’t always have to be public, that can very well be private, to go to someone privately to say “Hey, I’m not sure if you realise this and this is probably not your intention but here’s how it landed. Here’s how it felt. Here’s how it may have felt to our women of colour in a workplace. And I think that we are all committed to being mindful and creating an inclusive environment.” We must bring these things forward because otherwise, there simply isn’t the progress, we don’t build momentum, or get the push forward.
And so, it’s important that our allies are willing to speak up. Sometimes, it’s at risk to themselves and we absolutely understand and appreciate and get that. I would like to believe that they could do that in a way that creates that safety for themselves because if we don’t have allies in the workplace, then where are we? We’re back to square one.
So, it’s important that allies understand that this is a commitment to a cause. This is a commitment to our shared humanity to create a more fair, inclusive, and equitable environment and being unrelenting about that, not doing that from the background.
I’ll just give you a quick example. Sometimes I’ll be involved in a situation and it feels unfair and I speak up because at that moment, that is what is needed. So, I speak forward and no one else says anything, but then I go back to my office and I close my door and a colleague comes in and says “I’m so glad you spoke up. That just wasn’t right. That was so unfair.” – “Well, why did you not speak up at the meeting? Why was I the only person that spoke up?” And in that moment, we need our allies to step forward and to create that power in unity that we have together to say that this is not okay. So, the role of sponsors, mentors, and allies, they are all critical in tackling inequity in the workspace.
12. Now Simi, turning back to you, many women of colour may feel they’re not given the same personal development opportunities as others in the workplace. How can leaders tackle this and remove any bias in these processes?
(37:36) Well, I think when training is offered, many females think it’s because they have got to be fixed but this is not true. It’s really about recognising that there are flaws in the system and the policies but it’s also about helping women to develop their own confidence, as Rhonda said, for them to have that voice and to be able to push through these challenges.
And it’s also recognising the difference here between equality and equity. Equity acknowledges that difference or inequality does exist, but it aims to provide specific support to those under-representative groups to create that even playing field. So, it’s not that the same training needs to be provided for everyone but it’s really recognising where these thirteen leaders are at and what training or coaching, or as Rhonda mentioned, a mentorship sponsorship program would be most appropriate for them. And it’s really about their leaders and their managers really tapping into understanding where they’re at and where their aspirations lie and being able to be really, truly open to support them and provide the provision and support very intentionally and proactively.
13. Now, for many leaders and employees, the Black Lives Matter movement has shone a light on the inequalities that exist within their organisations. Now, I’d really like to know which organisations have most impressed you in their response?
(39:10) It’s such an interesting question, Megan. Large global businesses and CEOs, it was great to see that they came out and they shared their views on social media.
I quite like Amazon’s example here that they had the banner of Black Lives Matter on their homepage and they had a blog that gave further insight and support in terms of support that they were providing to black communities. I remember reading that one Amazon customer had complained about the slogan and he had come back to say “All Lives Matter” but Jeff Bezos replied but “Black lives matter. It doesn’t mean that other lives don’t matter.” And he went on to say that Black Lives Matter speaks to racism and the disproportionate risks that black people face in our law enforcement and justice system. And I think this is such an important point because as public engagement and the talk and interaction with the Black Lives Matter movement starts to slow down and as time passes on, as humans, we tend to forget some of these large injustices that have happened.
The question that I think that we need to keep asking ourselves is how we maintain the momentum because the momentum needs to be maintained. The awareness is out there now but action needs to happen. And I think, for organisations, it can be quite easy for them to come out when incidences like this happen and come out and speak and voice their opinion but at the same time, it’s then looking at what are they really going to do in terms of what are they actually going to commit to, to creating lasting change when they’re away from the high level of scrutiny. And it’s looking at “Well, what are the actual actions? What are the changes that are going to be made? When is that true assessment going to happen around their policies and systems and structures and when are those changes going to be made?”
I think another important point to raise here is especially large global organisations, they have a great opportunity as well to influence and have a greater impact especially when they’re working with third-party suppliers. So, if they’re using suppliers for their recruitment practices, for their talent development practices, working through that supply chain and working with suppliers that also buy into supporting the initiatives and the direction and their view on supporting this movement. And I think that’s hugely important because they can have an influence to really impact the wider systems and the impact on the policy at a wider level for a greater number of organisations.
And, I think it’s realising that as organisations review their diversity and inclusion policies and practices throughout the organisation across all the policies and practices, it’s remembering that Black Lives Matter is one part of that strategy. It’s absolutely an important part of that strategy but it’s one part of that strategy and that we still must be inclusive to other minority groups as part of that strategy though in its entirety, it is completely inclusive. And I think that’s where organisations can make a huge significant difference but it’s about taking action now.
And it’d be interesting. Rhonda, have you got any examples of organisations that you’ve come across that you’ve seen some real active changes in how they’re operating because of Black Lives Matter movement?
(43:12 – Rhonda) Really great question, Simi. One of the things that, in working with the partner, we’re in the active process of doing is going out and looking at statements by corporations that were made during the whole Black Lives Matter movement because in effect, what we plan to do is to go back and contact them to say “Okay, what was this followed up by?” And it’s great. The statement was amazing, yes, absolutely, but it can’t just be that.
And so, I’m not sure about specific companies but I wanted to add something, I think, that’s important. There’s a story that sort of has been floating around when we say that “black lives matter” and the response is “all lives matter.” There was a person who had just an amazing response to this and the response was “Well, saying “all lives matter” when you hear “black lives matters” is akin to saying all houses matter but there was one house that’s on fire. And so, let’s put water on all the houses, right? No, you need to care for the house that’s on fire.” And that was what that means.
And for organisations, they must understand their role and really move this conversation forward. We know that the median gap in terms of wealth for white Americans versus black Americans, for instance, is probably about a seven times difference, right? So, white Americans average about seven to eight more times wealth than the average black adult. Those types of challenges continue to plague us, and corporate America has a tremendous role to play in that. So, I’m not sure about the specific companies but I do know that that is one area that we want to engage in is really helping organisations to get a score and for that to be publicly recognised to say “Here’s where we are in our diversity initiatives and this is what it means to us and here’s what we’re doing about it.”
(45:07 – Simi) That’s fantastic, Rhonda. I think that accountability is so key.
14. Simi, what do you think are the three qualities that make an inclusive leader?
(45:29) I would say the first one is about being deeply self-aware. So, being aware of your own biases, personal flaws and then using your emotional intelligence to be able to manage how you show up and the impact that you have on others.
Secondly, I think, it’s about being curious and proactive. So, really showing that curiosity and open mindset to listen, to learn from others without judgment and listen with empathy to understand.
And, finally, I think it’s really about engaging from a place of compassion, again, using your emotional intelligence but using your cultural map, your intelligence to adapt and flex your authenticity and style to really bring out the best in those that you lead and engage because the more authentic you are and the more in tune you are with how to be able to adapt your style, you’re role modelling that for others in your team as well . And I think that really allows for an inclusive environment to be fostered within the organisation.
15. And finally, the same question to you, Rhonda. What do you think are the three qualities that make an inclusive leader?
(46:53) Really great question. To add on to what Simi mentioned, listening is such a critical skill. Often, times when we are thinking about communication, we’re thinking about speaking and getting our point of view across. However, the art of listening is so critical in terms of being a leader who is really seeking to be that inclusive leader.
So, it’s the art of listening for not only what is being said but what’s not being said. What is not being said in your organisation because people are not comfortable, they don’t have that place of psychological safety, they don’t believe that if they speak up, there’s going to be a change, they’re afraid that there’s going to be a retribution if they speak up or they’re not committed or engaged really in the organisation, they don’t buy into the mission? So, not only what is being said but listening for what is not being said.
The second one, I would say, for that inclusive leader is a leader who is consistently inviting and honouring everyone’s perspectives and contributions, inviting those contributions, not just waiting for the person who may not feel comfortable and they may never speak up if you don’t ask them but how valued and appreciated do they feel when you stop and you say “You know, Nancy, I haven’t heard from you. I really would love to get your input and to hear your thoughts on this.”
And then, also, a leader who is committed to transparency in the organisational shortcomings, their own personal leadership shortcomings, and in establishing the goal of movement. Perfection is not the goal. Most teams do not look for their leaders to be perfect. They do look for them to be open and transparent and they do want to be a part of the solution in helping to move in that direction.
So, I would say really mastering the art of listening, inviting and honouring the perspectives of everyone on the team, especially those diverse voices, and then also really seeking to move forward and to lean into that role of being transparent in every phase of your leadership.
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Today in support of International Women’s Day 2021, we are joined by Leadership Coach, Simi Rayat and Rhonda Williams, CEO of Dream Life Academy, who are here to share the key challenges women of colour face in their careers and how to best overcome these obstacles.
1. To begin with, please could you introduce yourself to our listeners? Simi, we’ll begin with you if that’s okay.
(00:57) Yes, so my name is Simi Rayat. My background is as a Chartered Business Psychologist, I work as an Executive Leadership Coach and I coach leaders to help elevate their leadership brilliance. So, I work with a lot of female leaders globally to help them progress, to feel empowered and strategically navigate their way through to senior positions; in particular, women of colour. And I’m the Founder and Owner of a thriving business and psychology practice called Wellbeing Face; based in London, but also serving clients globally.
2. And Rhonda, how about yourself?
(01:33) So, my name is Rhonda Y. Williams and I am, as you mentioned, the CEO and Chief Creative Officer of Dream Life Leadership Academy. In that work, I am an emotional intelligence strategist, and I say strategist because I work on helping leaders apply emotional intelligence principles to the work that they do so that they can get more consistent outcomes. I also focus on helping women of colour advance to executive level roles and positions and helping them in all aspects of that, whether that is the internal work that’s necessary and preparing them for that external work. And so, I am just super excited to be here with you all today.
3. And Rhonda, what has been your experience of being a woman of colour in the corporate world so far in your career?
(02:27) That’s a great question, Jon. For me, I am a registered nurse by background, and so I had the opportunity of growing up in healthcare and getting to see both sides of it as I began to advance in my career. I had the opportunity to go for and become a Chief Nursing Officer in healthcare, running the largest department in the hospital, overseeing all the nursing aspects, and then also to become eventually a hospital CEO. So, I’ve had a varied career and held the highest positions at the hospital level and then I’ve also held several VP-level roles.
And so, I’ve had a pretty varied experience and I’ve been able to see both the fun and then not so fun, the good and the bad, and everything in between that comes with being at those levels in the corporate world. And I will say, it has been challenging and it’s also been amazing with wonderful successes and opportunities. So, there’s absolutely been both sides of that. I have heard particularly that you always must work hard, but I learned something else along the way. I learned that it’s not always about how hard you work, particularly for women of colour, and I know we’re going to dive into a little bit of that more in our conversation.
4. Thank you for sharing your experiences, Rhonda. Obviously, there have been a lot of changes during the pandemic, do you think your experience has changed in any way during the pandemic?
(04:04) I don’t know so much that it has changed. I think what has changed is the level of awareness around us to some of the challenging situations that women of colour face, particularly in the corporate spaces and environments. And there seems to be more of an interest in understanding what some of those challenges are and an interest in helping to find solutions and pathways for us to begin to move forward.
And so, I am very encouraged by the level of awareness that is happening today because of the pandemic and, with Black Lives Matter and there’s just a lot happening in our world today. And I think we’ve got to continue to be curious on this journey as we move forward into solutions.
5. You mentioned the Black Lives Matter movement there. What impact do you think that and the growing polarisation especially that the US has had?
(05:06) Absolutely. It has been a powerful force for us all here. And for me, even personally speaking, I’ve been in the corporate space for a long time and just going about my work, doing my thing, but I will tell you that 2020 literally changed me and changed my perspective and I began to think about this world and this work that I do differently. In particular, how can I begin to make sure that I’m using my strengths and my skills to help elevate women of colour, to help position them in these higher-level leadership roles?
We absolutely must have those seats at the table because the decisions are made there, and without having that seat, we cannot have our voices heard and we don’t have the proper representation. And so it was personally impactful for me as a black woman with three black sons, the issue just was really heart-wrenching for me and it calls me to really begin to look at everything that I’m doing and how I’m contributing to this conversation.
(06:30) Fantastic question, Jon, it’s important that we all do this regardless of your race or gender. The challenges are real, they can be hugely subtle and you’re not going to know of them if we don’t open up the dialogue or be curious to find out more; and finding out more really helps to relate, engage, be compassionate, and it allows you to be supportive in your dealings and provide opportunities to offer support and create pathways and create opportunities.
So, I would recommend that it’s important to approach leaders of colour and ask them the questions of their experience. What has helped them to get to where they’ve got to? What has been some of their challenges and how they navigated through those challenges? Ask the questions of those people that sponsor women of colour and mentor them. Ask the questions of recruiters and hiring managers about their attraction and recruitment strategies.
You can tell a lot by how a company tackles and approaches racial diversity through its attraction and recruitment strategies. A couple of years ago, I did some really interesting work with a global professional services firm to really help them design workshops and familiarisation sessions to help BAME candidates become more familiar with the couple of the key competencies that they knew BAME candidates particularly struggled with. And that work was hugely rewarding, and it had an incredible powerful impact on the number of BAME female candidates that then secured permanent roles within this professional services firm.
I think it’s also important to speak with either previous employees or current graduates, and those are different levels of leadership in the organisation. That curiosity, as Rhonda said, because of the Black Lives Matter movement, the curiosity has been awakened and we really need to be able to be open to ask further questions and to really shine that light of curiosity to find out more.
6. In 2020, it was reported that of all the Fortune 500 CEOs, only 1% were black, 2% were Asian, 2% were Latino and 5% were women. So, there’s obviously a lot of work that needs to be done. What do you think had led to this and what impacts does this lack of representation have on the careers and outlook of those just starting out in the world of work?
(09:13) Yes, absolutely, Jon. those numbers are real and they’re representative of the uphill climb and battle that women sometimes face in the workspace. I think there are many reasons why we are where we are, particularly because the corporate space has always been a male-dominated place and it’s been dominated by white males and so that proceeds today. One of the important aspects for all of us, I believe, at the organisational level, we as leaders in both large organisations and small organisations have a tremendous opportunity in front of us to begin change.
In that change, one of the very first steps that I recommend is to do an honest assessment. This goes back to what Simi mentioned in terms of being curious, getting curious about your organisation and asking the question of “who are we,” not “who do we think we are,” or “who do we want to be,” but who are we right now in this day and this time particularly in terms of diversity, equity and inclusion.
Once you understand who you are and there’s an honest assessment to give you some feedback, now you have an opportunity to look at where you are versus where you want to be. How does where you are align with your organisational goals? Are they in alignment with your values and what are you hoping for? Where is it that you want to go? And then you have an amazing opportunity to begin applying substantive actions that can begin to close that gap.
It’s important here to know that this is not about fault or blame. This is simply about being curious and gaining an understanding of where you are versus where you want to be. And then I would also just add here that it is important for these actions to go beyond performative statements and gestures that just sound good. These actions need to be substantive so that they can drive the change that you want to see in your organisation.
7. Is the notion of “only-ness” a challenge for women of colour? So, for example, being acutely aware that you are the only person in the room that looks like you. What impact can that have?
(11:42) I have, throughout my career, been in a position where I’ve often felt that “only-ness” and being the “only,” and it’s a heavy weight to carry. When you think in terms of representation, we think of when you are in the political system, the term representation matters. And that often applies in other aspects of our lives as well, whether it’s in your community, are you the only person in your community; and then in the workspace, are you the only one there?
When you are that only person, you’re the only woman and then combined with the fact that you may be the only woman of colour, that matters and there’s a heaviness that can come with that. There doesn’t have to be, but you can very easily begin to feel like you are misunderstood, that others don’t hear you the same way or you may not have the same cultural relationship to the organisation.
And so, for organisations to be aware that that may be present so that it is not just the employee’s responsibility of stepping and leaning into that, but it’s a meeting of the minds. It’s a meeting of halfway where they say, listen, we recognise that you’re the only, and we are going to do our very best to make sure that you are included, valued, honoured, and respected in this process.
So, it can be a heavy weight to bear, but I think it’s on both parties, both the organisation and the leader and the other organisation leaders to come together to minimise that burden.
(Simi – 13:25) Just to add to that as well, Jon. I love what Rhonda shared there because I think it is about the organisation but it’s also about the individual. And as a woman of colour, it’s really then recognising that also as an opportunity if you are the only woman of colour in the room as a woman and you stand out, but you’re also more likely to be remembered. So, the point about sticking out can also be quite a positive attribute and it gives you the chance to really allow the spotlight to be shone on your unique skills, abilities, qualities, and the value that you bring to the table. So, perhaps instead of shrinking away, you’re shrinking back. The opportunity there is to step forward and make a lasting impression and be seen, be heard and take the opportunity to be visible.
(Rhonda – 14:21) I love that. And just to wrap that up quickly, Simi. There is a quote that I love, and it says, “Why are you trying so hard to fit in when you were clearly born to stand out?”. I love that and I often share that with my clients who are really dealing with what can sometimes feel heavy and being the only, and then we use that to step forward in all of their brilliantness and take that and use it as an opportunity to contribute in new ways to the organisation.
8. Now, Simi, we hear a lot about the importance of bringing your authentic self to work every day. Do you think that women of colour in particular struggle to do that? And if so, why, and what other barriers that they face? What steps can they take to overcome these?
(15:22) Yes, another great question, Jon. As a woman of colour myself and listening and hearing to experiences of other women of colour leaders, we fight hard to prove unfair stereotype that we’re unskilled or we’re too loud or too timid or not business-savvy, too brash, not sophisticated, which all of these are so untrue.
I recently coached a black CEO and she said she would always emphasise in any meeting that she was in that she has a law degree to ensure that she’s being taken seriously. And I think women of colour struggle with this because we are made to feel that you’re too much of this or too less of that and quite often worry about revealing too much about ourselves, just our personal selves as what we may reveal may be used against us in a promotion or in our progression at work.
So yes, some of the organisational cultures do intentionally or unintentionally make women of colour armour up. And these women armour up to protect ourselves from getting stung.
And similarly to the quote that Rhonda shared, I love Danielle Laporte quote, and she talks about you’ll always be too much or something, too much or small for someone, or too big or too loud or too edgy, but if you round up your edges, you lose your edge. And I love that quote because our uniqueness and our difference are what needs to be celebrated. But as we know, sometimes being different and standing out can be perceived by others as a threat and that we don’t quite fit the right image. And a huge part of the work that I do with women leaders is to coach them, to bring their authentic selves to work.
And by that I don’t mean that you must be this one authentic self in every situation that you’re in, but it’s mainly about being adaptive, I call it adaptive authenticity. Think of it as a light switch dimmer, you can turn the brightness up or down, depending on how much light you want to bring to a situation. So, for example, when I’m with my family and friends, my loud, giggly, enthusiastic self is out in abundance. On a scale of one to ten, it’s way up there being on the ten. but when I’m in a meeting with the executive team or the C-suite, I will dial back the giggly self and very kind of loud self, from say a ten to a six or a seven. But I won’t dial it all the way back to a zero or a one because then I’m not being my authentic self.
So, I think it’s hugely important to recognise what authenticity means and how you can adapt your authentic style in situations, so you feel comfortable and you feel that you’re able to be yourself. And just to add to that, it’s hugely important to engender a strong network of people around you. So, supporters, allies, sponsors, people that really recognise, acknowledge, value, and they appreciate your unique gift because it’s so important to be visible and create these opportunities. But also, when those opportunities present, take them up, step up, have your voice and opinions, and allow your message to be delivered.
Thank you very much. We must all help to create an environment where everybody can be their true self and that there are plenty of benefits to having that diversity across the board. Thank you very much for sharing your insights there.
9. Do you think there are any other issues and unique challenges women of colour are facing in the workplace right now and how can these be tackled? So, for instance, McKinsey recently reported that women of colour were more likely to have been made redundant or furloughed because of the COVID-19 pandemic.
(19:34) I think many women have been affected, especially those in retail, tourism, service industries. And the McKinsey research is important and highlights the very disproportioned number of women in colour in lowest skilled and lower earning roles and industries. And many of these industries are the ones that have been most impacted by the pandemic.
I think all the fathers and mothers that have both worked from home during this time, statistics do also show that the majority of the women have had to brunt the greater responsibility with childcare, home schooling, managing the house and managing their careers. And some of these women have then resorted to reducing their hours or having no choice but to leave their roles or some have been furloughed.
I think it really brings about some interesting opportunities here and some challenges that absolutely need to be addressed. It’s quite similar to the concept to the maternal wall, which is another phrase that’s often used to relate to working mothers and when women childbear or in childbearing age, or they need to take off time to give birth or be on maternity leave, their childcare responsibility. A lot of those circumstances can put women at a disadvantage in their careers compared to men and fathers and we call it the maternal wall.
And I think it’s really being cognizant of the fact that this is there; this is a real issue faced by so many women out there. You see also the concrete ceiling that many of your listeners will have also had and that was a term coined by Jasmine Barbers. And she describes this as being the significant kind of feeling that’s there, the tough hurdle for women of colour when they’re trying to reach and elevate their careers to the higher levels in the organisation.
And I think we need to be really aware of these because they are real and it’s about acknowledging these barriers and these hurdles and then being able to plan effectively and strategically to help navigate through them, but also put various support out for these women as well to help them. I think there’s a positive aspect to the pandemic that there’s so many organisations, they’ve realised that work can be done more flexibly and remotely.
Some, incredible women have created their own online businesses during these times. But I think there is a bigger challenge here to help women that careers or job opportunities had really been adversely affected during the pandemic for the reasons that I’ve just spoken about and really helping to bring them back into employment, helping to empower them and design ways in which they can be supported, they can be trained or they can have opportunities that really allows them to really be able to fulfil that part of their life too.
Thank you very much. I hope that the flexibility that has come from the pandemic does allow more women to participate in the workforce, that would be a real positive to come out of it.
10. Rhonda, do you think that women of colour feel they can’t easily call out bias or inequality that they may be experiencing? And what can employees do to challenge their employers on this and start to feel comfortable in raising their concerns from the bottom up?
(23:24) Yes, this is again, an important question and a part of it, I believe, ties to what Simi just shared with us in terms of authenticity. I think a part of it is for the leader to get confident in who they are and what they stand for, what they value, what’s important for them. There was a quote attributed Alexander Hamilton, and it says, “If you don’t stand for something, you’ll fall for anything.” And so, when I’m coaching leaders, I first want them to get clear and to embrace who they are and being able to use that authentic voice. And once you are there, then you can begin to bring that voice into the workplace, into the conversation, particularly when there are situations where you feel like there has been bias or inequities.
Now, that’s a challenging place to go. And I was in clubhouse the other day and we were having a conversation around a similar topic. There were many, many different perspectives, as you can imagine, but there were many in the room who felt they could not speak up because they felt hindered by several reasons. First and foremost, we tend to think about the extreme of losing your job but it’s not always that overt. There are sometimes many more subtleties that needed to be dealt with such as maybe women don’t want to speak up because they are fearful that it might impact the raise that they’re due to receive, or that promotion that they’re going for. They’re looking for advancement and they don’t want to be seen as the troublemaker who is causing disruption in the workplace.
So, there are many reasons why women of colour may not want to speak up when there are these times of inequity. The coaching, of course, around this is to find your voice and to really get comfortable with yourself. This is a place where I go with emotional intelligence and that being a passion of mine, I use emotional intelligence a lot to help leaders begin to move forward with some of these more uncomfortable types of conversations. And the first thing that I ask of them is to get comfortable with what they’re feeling and to understand what they’re feeling because the more you are understanding what you’re feeling and thinking and where that is coming from, you can then bring that forward into a conversation in a way that’s productive. And we want to make sure that as we’re sharing our thoughts and feelings, that is not just an emotional dump or burst because those types of outbursts can cause us to not be heard. And when speaking on such an important topic, we absolutely need our voices to be heard. So, to do that and bring that forward in a way that is productive is very important.
This is also where representation matters. When you feel that you are well-represented in the organisation, you are more likely to come forward. One of the things though that organisations can do, because again, I believe this is a partnership. And in order to be comfortable speaking about biases or inequities, the organisation must have built trust. And trust is not given, it is earned, and it’s earned over time. And so, this is something leaders need to be consistent with. They need to be steadfast in their commitment of building trust with all their team members, which will allow these conversations to take place.
And then the second opportunity for organisational leaders is to step forward and ask the questions, become curious again. Back to what Simi referenced earlier, be curious about the environment that you’re creating. Don’t always let the individual have to come forward. If you’re opening up that space, if you’re opening up these conversations, if you’ve built that trust, you are more likely to get valuable information that can help the organisation to grow and help the individual feel more confident and comfortable that they are working for the right organisation that values them for their diversity and everything they bring to the table.
11. Rhonda, how important is sponsorship in helping women of colour progress in their careers and how can those that are listening to this podcast go about seeking out sponsorship?
(27:58) I think sponsorship is critical and important for women of colour, especially when you may not feel like there’s adequate representation. However, it is important for every individual leader to know that your sponsor doesn’t have to look like you. Your sponsor just simply needs to be someone who values you, who respects you, who believes in you and is willing to be your champion. And so that means that they are willing to advocate for you, they are willing to speak and lift your voice both when you are in the room and when you’re not.
Most women have experienced being in a room or a meeting and making a statement only for it to get very little reaction. And then several minutes later, a male counterpart will make the same statement and suddenly people seem to hear that differently. Well, for sponsors, what that means is lifting that voice and saying, “Oh, Rhonda just made that statement a minute ago. So, it’s great to see that you agree with her”; or, “You know what, it’s so great to see our team come together. Rhonda made that same statement”; and somehow lifting that voice, again, often even when you are not in the room, because there are many conversations that are happening about you, without you. And if that is the case, that sponsor can be the person singing your praises and making sure that others are aware of the contribution, understand some of your successes and why you are a person that they should be advocating for.
There’s another side, though, to sponsorship and that is also being willing to give feedback to the person that you are sponsoring. And if, for instance, they are not showing up in their full authentic self, if they are showing up with behaviours that could damage what you might see in them, which is their potential. But if they’re showing up with behaviours that are holding them back, being able to say so. So, creating this safe space for this honest conversation so that they can deliver a better work product, they can be more comfortable showing up as themselves and feel confident that they have a sponsor, a champion and an advocate who’s willing to help them get better and to show up better.
12. Simi, what role do allies at work play in helping women of colour and how can our listeners be an ally in the workplace?
(30:47) Great question again, Jon. An ally is someone who proactively offers help and support to help you achieve your goals. And, an ally is beyond just being a friend for you at work. They are someone that is going to have or create the opportunity for you to have open conversations with them. You can use them as a sounding board, seek advice from them and you’ll know that they have your best interests at heart.
And similar to what Rhonda said, when you’re not in the room, they also will be there to promote your work to others and promote the value that you can offer when you’re not even in the room. So that’s hugely important and adding onto what Rhonda said earlier, if you work in a male-dominated environment, it’s also recommended that you have a few male allies that you can trust to really boost your progression as well.
And these male allies should really recognise that is their privilege within your workplace and industry, and that they are at this area of position of privilege, and genuinely be committed to helping you succeed as well. So, it goes to the point that you don’t need to have someone that looks like you and sounds like you or is the same gender as you. Absolutely not, it’s someone that really values your unique gifts and recognises and acknowledges the work that you do.
And I think part of that is also being really open about sharing that you are looking for allies, that you are looking for people to really kind of take you and support you on this journey because you are absolutely ready to take your career to the next level, or put yourself forward for the next promotion. So, I think not shying away from those conversations or asking an individual to fulfil, some of that opportunity, responsibility, and role, which is important as well.
(Rhonda – 32:57) Simi, I love what you just said. One of the challenges I think for women in general, and particularly for women of colour is we are not always used to asking for help. And you just said that we need to step forward and say, “Hey, I’m looking for allies and sponsors”. And being able to get to say to someone, “I would love your help with this. Here’s my goal and here’s what I see. Here’s why I think you would be amazing as a partner for me in this”. And being able to have those conversations can sometimes be challenging. So, one of the challenges out there for all the women of colour leaders out there is are you asking for help and how are you asking for help? And are you doing that in a way that helps you become more successful?
Thank you, Rhonda and, Simi. And before I move on to the last question, I just want to thank you both for sharing your expert insights and advice and for sharing your experiences as well because they are incredibly valuable. So, thank you both.
13. For this last question I’m going to ask it to both of you if that’s okay. So, we’ll start with you, Simi. What is the one piece of careers advice that you would give to our listeners today?
(34:13) I think it’s one piece of advice I would have been given early in my career would be that being able to be open to broadening your network, creating new connections and making them as diverse as possible is really important because you don’t know how those connections and those relationships are going to unfold during your career and those individuals’ careers as well.
So, I think if you can start to do that from an early position in your career, it’s a fantastic way of building relationships and having diverse network around you and being able to really gain and understand things of others that are not similar to yourself. And going back to that point of curiosity, to be able to really learn from others and be able to celebrate that difference. And at the same time, like I said, you just don’t know where or what will happen with those connections or those relationships as yours and those individuals’ journeys unfold.
14. And Rhonda, may I ask the same question of you. If you had one piece of careers advice to share with our listeners today, what would that be?
(35:32) Really great question. I love ending on this question and I would say, one recommendation would be to be intentional, to truly think through what you were doing, where you’re going, why you’re going there, what you want.
And so, the intention then helps you carve a path forward. If I consciously decide that my goal and my aim is the C-suite. Once I have my eyes set on that target, everything else along the way is simply one more step on the journey. I may have some hurdles to overcome, I may have to go through them under them, around them, however I get past them, but I have my goal. I know that I’m aiming for the C-suite, whether it’s at this company I am at today or another company, I know where I’m going.
That type of intentionality I find helps people feel more joyful about their journey because they know where they’re going, they know that everything else is just a part of the process. And so, the recommendation I would have, and one piece of advice I would give is to be intentional.
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